From farmers’ markets to Canadian retail domination

Living Tree Foods’s ravioli products are a staple in my home during the fall and winter. This interview took place three years ago and I’m sure its products are more widely distributed now, but this is a great origin story of how the company was founded.

Justin Manning: Hello everyone. Happy New Year. Welcome to another episode of VEG Networking Canada. We acknowledge, honor, and respect that many of us are located on the traditional, ancestral, and unceded territories of many Indigenous peoples of Canada. VEG Networking Canada is a place where vegan, plant-based companies connect and collaborate. We have some great conversations with some great professionals. And today we have a special guest who has her law degree from UBC, Allard Law. She has an economics master’s degree from the University of Toronto, with an undergraduate degree in mathematics. She’s volunteered for Animal Justice, Mercy for Animals, and the Good Food Institute. She is the self proclaimed “mad scientist” behind all of their company’s recipes, and the company is the gold winner for outstanding Product of the Year from the ground ups 2022 trade show. VEG Networking Canada is pleased to introduce the co-founder of Living Tree Foods. Welcome Emily Wilson.

Emily Wilson: Thank you so much for that introduction. That was awesome, and thank you for having me.

JM: Well, we are so glad that you could carve out some time for VEG Networking Canada today, and we’re going to start a little bit more. We’ll get to business in the second question for you, but the first one is more of a personal question. And it is:

Can you tell everybody listening more about your own vegan, plant-based origin story?

EW: Absolutely. So that started when I was about eight or nine years old. I officially went vegetarian when I was nine, I think. I had kind of started, you know, putting two and two together about where, you know, the chicken on my plate was coming from, and I loved animals. So from what I gather, from what my parents have told me, I started kind of asking questions. And my mom has an education in nutrition, so she was like, “Well, you don’t need to be eating meat.” And she was happy to cook a separate portion of the meal for me, which I was so lucky about, because I know a lot of kids don’t have that support from their families.

So I decided to do that when I was nine years old, and my dad was actually kind enough to go vegetarian with me for a year so that I didn’t feel, you know, alienated and isolated, I guess. And I went vegan in 2013 I think I had before that started to only eat, you know, organic or free range dairy and eggs, thinking that that was, you know, aligned with my values, and then I kind of just, you know, had to face the fact that that wasn’t really the case. There were still major issues with that in terms of, you know, animal welfare. So I went fully vegan in 2013, and so I’m almost coming up on 10 years, which is exciting. And yeah, now my whole family is vegan as well.

JM: So, wow. Just end with that bomb. You touch on a really important note there about the importance of having supportive people around you. You touched on the fact that not everybody is fortunate and blessed enough to have those people be their family, so sometimes it might be finding friends or groups like this to have that supportive network around you, but we’ll touch a little bit more on that, probably throughout the conversation. But…

Why don’t we go into your entrepreneurial origin story? How did that start? When did that start for you?

EW: Yeah, so I didn’t think that I was going to be doing this a few years ago. I was in law school, and I started dating who is now my co-founder, Kyle. And you know, he was not vegan. Kind of had negative connotations about vegan food. Had previously actually lived on a dairy farm, and so I was—I love cooking and baking. So I would cook, you know, vegan food and vegan versions of things. And he was pretty blown away. And was thinking, you know, if he had such misconceptions about how good vegan food could be, there are probably so many more other people like that.

So the summer before going into my final year at law school, we just kind of, for fun, started making and selling products at farmers’ markets, and they were really well received. So especially the cashew-based vegan like cheese spreads, that’s our main line of products right now, they were just really well received. And it was such a more exciting opportunity than law. He was a year ahead of me, so he had graduated and was working, and, you know, it was a slog, and this opportunity was just a lot more exciting, and kind of beckoned us away from law for now, but, you know, definitely open to going back to that in the future.

JM: Fabulous, amazing. And in terms of your products, you said the main line is the cashew cheese spreads. What else is there in the—in the shelf?

EW: So we have a couple of cashew-based yogurts as well, and a slamming lox. It’s a fish-free smoked salmon and very exciting. We’re actually just launching ravioli right now. We—yeah, we got a machine in the fall. I don’t know if you know, no, no’s pasta shop, but yeah, so we had previously been buying their ravioli to go in our tiny, little retail store at the front of our manufacturing facility. And so I went to order more, and she was like, “Oh, I’m actually, you know, not going to be doing this any longer.”

And it had always been in the back of my mind that I wanted to do ravioli since we started. So I was like, hmm, this is an opportunity to jump on that. So we’ve been working with Heather from Nono’s, and I make my own recipes, but she’s been really helpful in getting this, you know, product out, and we’re going to be launching it in Q1 so we’re really excited.

JM: Boom, there you go. Thanks for dropping that news. That sounds so good. And what a clever—what a clever name, slamming lox. So in terms of, you know, sort of like all, we’ll call it alt, dairy, fish, free foods, pasta, now, in the space that you’re in, the next question is what are some trends, but maybe more so transformations, because we don’t want any of the awesome trends to go away.

So what are some transformations you’ve noticed in your space?

EW: Pretty much just how mainstream it’s gotten. I mean, I know that’s not really new anymore, but just in the last number of months, we’ve seen Babybell, Boursin, Philadelphia is launching a vegan cream cheese, so it’s just really telling and very heartening that these massive companies are seeing the need to cater to vegans. And yeah, so definitely, just kind of how mainstream it’s getting. And you know, hospitals, even universities, are focusing on introducing plant-based items onto their menus. So it’s‌ all very exciting.

JM: No, you’re absolutely right, like the transformation or trend of big brands and mass adoption, you’re right. Not‌ necessarily too new, but always great to see you’re right about the education system and the healthcare system. Now, I think that’s a valid sort of trend or transformation is, those outfits taking this on? Because they’re all centered around data. So that makes it, that makes sense. Now, you mentioned the launch of the ravioli. Is there anything like, the next question is based around the future.

So where is Living Tree Foods going in the future?

You can answer it from there, or if you want to walk us through what the business looks like, from the farmers’ markets to where you are now, and then maybe let us know where you’re going in the future.

EW: Yeah. So yeah, I don’t think we mentioned actually, when we launched, this was summer of 2020, so a couple, about two and a half years ago now, right in the middle of the pandemic, it was a questionable decision. But yeah, so we started selling at farmers markets, just working out of a commissary kitchen, a shared kitchen, you know, kind of dabbling in retail, a little bit selling, you know, food service tubs to a couple of big bagel shops here in Vancouver.

Those who are local will know Siegel’s Bagels and Rosemary Rock Salt. So just mostly doing farmers’ markets, kind of dabbling in the retail and food service space. But when, once we decided we really wanted to go, you know, really lean into the business, you know, we thought we wanted to be able to service distributors and a wider, you know, region. So we moved into our own production facility in New Westminster, pretty much exactly a year ago now. And so we’re still only in BC.

But for the future, we’re really intent on becoming Canada-wide, hopefully this year, and we’re also going to be focusing more on food service as well. I think restaurants, having good vegan options is just so important. So especially with the ravioli, I think that’d be a great food service restaurant option, but really pushing Canada-wide this year is what we’re going for.

JM: Perfect. So Living Tree Foods, Canada domination, excellent. And, yeah, you’re absolutely right. Like food service, think about the filling that goes into the ravioli, let alone the past. In and of itself, like how much that time and energy would take away from a chef or a cook to do it themselves, that makes total sense. So in your introduction, we talked about, you know, your volunteer work with the Good Food Institute, Mercy For Animals, and working with Animal Justice as well. Feel free to dive into more of those. Or maybe there’s some things that we don’t know, but the question is centered around giving back charity. That might be different things for different people. It might be time, it might be money. But the question is:

What does Living Tree Foods do in terms of giving back or charitable giving?

EW: Yeah, so Animal Justice. It’s a legal organization fighting for the legal protection of animals. And I actually worked there as a summer student after my first year at law school. So they’re really near and dear to my heart. They’re kind of my, you know, go-to in terms of charitable giving. So they actually co host an animal law conference in Canada this year with different universities this year. It was with U of T so a few months ago; we donated and shipped a bunch of food to the conference, you know, to support in that way. Since, you know, we’re a new company, that’s kind of the way that we’re able to contribute at this point. But yeah, I love them.

JM: Absolutely. And whether it’s a new company or an old company, like shipping product, right? Like there’s the money associated with the actual goods, the actual time that it took to do that. So, yeah, it’s‌ an interesting conversation around charity and giving back, because I think we’re kind of moving away from the old guard of just giving money, right? There’s so many different ways that we can and by virtue, all the conversations that we have with great people like yourself are already doing their own form right? Of giving back to the environment and to the animals and human health and everything. So that’s great.

Okay, so the next question—you can pick one from each; you can stick to just one version of information that has helped you. But the question is that we’re trying to get, is trying to extract tools and resources from our special guests for everybody listening, in the form of books, podcasts or mobile apps on your phone that help you as a business owner, and it might be specifically related to numbers in business for you, who knows it might be law, might be mental health related, but the question is:

What are some books, podcasts or apps that you recommend?

EW: Okay, so, um, so in terms of podcasts, again, related to Animal Justice, there’s a podcast called Paw and Order, and it’s about animal law in Canada. They’re not recording anymore, but there is quite a backlog of episodes, so it’s still really useful, just from the last number of years. And it’s hosted by the executive director of Animal Justice as well as a couple of other individuals. And I think it’s just such an accessible, informative way to learn about the legal landscape for animals in Canada, which is, surprisingly, not as progressive as some people might think. So that’s kind of just a personal one I love. It’s not really business-related.

One app that I actually just discovered last year. It’s called abillion and it, yeah, I didn’t know about it, but it’s awesome. It just reviews different vegan products, and it was cool because we found our own products on there. That’s how I discovered it. So that would probably be an app. And in terms of books, I just read one. This is very business-related, called Ramping Your Brand. It’s about kind of how to scale premium CPG brands. I wish I could remember the author. Off the top of my head, I can’t remember the author.

But another personal one I love is, I think it’s called Mercy for Animals, and it’s by Nathan Runkle, the founder of Mercy for Animals. I believe it’s not a ‌light read, that’s for sure, in terms of, you know what, what goes on for animals, but another one that’s kind of personal to me, that’s so great

JM: Thank you so much for sharing those resources. And what we always do is sort of try as much as we can to put those in the show notes or whatever. Let me get these videos out so people can remember what it was and dive right into those. Thanks. Thanks so much. So, second to last question for you, Emily is centered around inspiration. And again, we’re looking at it kind of the lens that might mean different things to different people, right? And so the question is:

What does inspiration mean to you? Where do you source it? That kind of thing?

EW: Yeah, um, so having been vegetarian for most of my life, I think some companies that I really look up to are kind of like the original, like OG ones like Tofurky and Ives, like I love, I still love those companies, and I love supporting them. I also love, you know, local brands you learn a lot from, you know, meeting other companies at farmers’ markets. Yeah, it’s kind of funny.

Alicia Silverstone is actually the person who ultimately pushed me to become fully vegan. I was still in my, oh, you know, organic free-range, dairy and eggs are fine. And I think I saw a post of hers just pretty much being like, you know, no, it’s not or it’s still harmful. And so, yeah, I just find it, you know, it cool when people—you have no idea what kind of influence you’re going to have on someone when you put these messages out there. But there are some, you know, really tangible inspirations that I’ve gotten from people and so, you know, hopefully, as we spread the word more and more, it’ll just become kind of a snowball effect.

JM: Totally. And not to put you on the spot here or anything. But you mentioned Alicia Silverstone. You mentioned Camille Labchuk, the Executive Director of Animal Justice. You being, you know, in your position with your company, is there any inspiration or energy that you source from women leaders in business or anything like that? Not put you on the spot. Like, does that resonate with you at all? Or do you have anything to say on that?

EW: Yeah, no, for sure. I mean, Camille Labchuk. She’s—I look up to her a ton, because, you know, especially being female in the legal industry, I know has had to, you know, maybe put up with some stuff that men wouldn’t have had to and so she’s always been kind of a hero, I guess, of mine.

I reached out to her, I don’t even know how many years ago now, because this is when I was still considering going to law school, and she was one of the only animal lawyers that I could find in Canada. So I met up with her at a, I think it was like a vegan trade show. I can’t even remember, to be honest, but she was so nice and that she took the time out of her day to speak with me and talk to me about law school and the—you know, Canadian animal law field and so, and then working for her at animal justice, definitely someone I’ve looked up to.

JM: Yeah, we think it’s an important conversation here to discuss vision work in Canada, and the fact that, you know, brands that are women led, I think it’s something like between three to 5% of venture capital goes into those firms, right? It’s so low. And then you add in another layer of marginalized communities or women of color, and it gets down to a point something percent of venture capital goes into those companies. And so the more that we can discuss and have those conversations, we think it’s important. So thank you so much for sharing a little bit more about that.

Now the last question, some folks are really modest. Some are very upfront that they have advice and they’re really interested in giving that advice. But advice can come with sort of some baggage to it. So maybe it’s you giving advice, maybe it’s tips, wisdom, lessons, you’ve learned something like that. For those listening that might be in a position where they are thinking about starting a company, maybe they’re fresh in starting their company, or maybe they’re, you know, well into it. But to go from farmers’ markets to, you know, winning outstanding product of the year, and then the goals of going across Canada, clearly…

There’s some lessons or wisdom or tips that you’ve learned along the way. So we’re kind of trying to ask you to share that information with everyone.

EW: For sure. So I don’t know about advice, but I can certainly speak to things that I have experienced. One thing I would say is that it is going to be, no matter how hard and how much hard work you think it’s going to be, probably going to be more there. I’ve just had such low points of, you know, what was I thinking? You know, abandoning a law career for this, not knowing if the company has any future. Yeah. So there are definitely very low points, but you do get through those, and it’s so much more fun than I’ve had at any other job. It’s—you get to be so creative. You’re completely in control of your day. It kind of is hard to remember that this is actually work. Sometimes you’re—it’s a lot of work, but, you know, it’s completely self-driven, which is cool.

So, yeah, I mean, I would say really tangible advice. I would say is, stay on top of your books, like bookkeeping. Things can get messy pretty quickly. When you’re just starting out, you’re like, oh, this is just for fun, you know, but you know, just kind of planning things out right from the beginning and being a bit more organized, I think, would have benefited us, and don’t burn yourself out. I would say at farmers’ markets, that’s partly why we’re trying to move, to be honest, to retail. We do want to reach a wider audience, but it’s just, it’s, you know, a lot of that’s kind of, you know, standard advice within the farmers’ market circuit. But it does wear you down, you know, lugging things to markets every day and back. So definitely, I would say just, you know, focus your energy on where you think you’ll get the most bang for your buck. And, yeah, I don’t know ‌, it’s really, it’s really fun. I love it, but definitely, definitely stressful sometimes.

JM: Absolutely, absolutely, and like we talked about at the beginning, too, the advantage of having a support system again, whether that is family, whether that is friends, whether that is mentors, people who have done it before, whether it’s a—you know, people who are literally in your shoes, doing a company as well, having them around you. That’s some lessons that you’ve learned. It sounds like, and then it sounds like to kind of read in between the lines of your comment. It’s like that saying about courage, right? Like courage is doing the thing, knowing full well how scary or hard it might be, but doing it anyway, right? And so it sounds like that kind of a mental game, if you would, that you went through you knew it was going to be hard, you didn’t know. You were a little unsure, but you did it anyway, right? And couldn’t be happier that you did, so yeah.

EW: Well, exactly. Just, you know, you kind of don’t know what you don’t know at the beginning, and so just, I guess, not letting the fact that you know you’re not going to know how to do something stop you from doing it. We’ve kind of just adopted the attitude like, we’ll figure it out. And so I definitely think not becoming paralyzed by trying to be perfect or not currently knowing exactly how things will go is very important.

JM: Absolutely awesome. So before we let everybody know your website and where they can find you on Instagram and probably drool a little bit over these products that you, the mad scientist, have created. Is there anything in this conversation that has come up that you want to touch on further, no pressure, and then as well, if there’s any sort of announcements or anything that we didn’t touch on that you want to leave everybody listening with?

EW: Yeah, so, not announcements, really, but basically just kind of the whole reason of being for our business. We’re really trying to break down barriers to plant-based eating. For people, there are a ton of them. There’s convenience, cost, taste, and so taste is really the one that we’ve focused on so far. Like I said, there are misconceptions about vegan food and how good vegan food can be, so we’ve really focused on trying to create products that are not only for vegans, and that’s really been borne out by our experience at consumer shows and farmers markets.

We’re trying to create those bridge products between, you know, vegans or people who are lactose intolerant, flexitarians and beyond, we’ve done consumer shows in Abbotsford and Chilliwack, which are very, you know, rural communities and people who have no exposure to vegan food just try it, because it’s there, and then they end up taking home three jars. So, yeah, just, we’re really trying to make vegan food that not only your vegan will like, but you know, also your conservative uncle or your grandma or, you know, yeah.

JM: Well, thank you so much for sharing the sort of mission or vision behind your company in terms of breaking down barriers and creating accessibility to make plant-based food enjoyable as it is, right, and as delicious and great as it is. And so, Alright, everybody, you can find out more online, www.livingtreefoods.ca. Just how it sounds. LivingTreeFoods.ca. And on Instagram, it’s the same. It’s @livingtreefoods.

And so this has been an excellent conversation with the co-founder of Living Tree Foods, Emily Wilson. Thank you everybody for joining us on another episode of VEG Networking Canada, and we’ll catch you soon. Take care. Bye for now.

EW: Thank you so much for having me.

 

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