Inside the mind of the creator of a fast-growing plant-based food chain
This interview with Odd Burger Co-Founder & CEO James McInnes took place 3 years ago, and the publicly-traded franchise chain has come a very long way since. Let’s dive into the conversation we had with James!
Justin Manning: Hello everyone, welcome to another episode of VEG Networking Canada. We are going to begin as we always do with our land acknowledgement. We acknowledge, honour and respect that many of us are located on the traditional unseated territories of many Indigenous peoples of Canada. We’re here for another episode of VEG Networking Canada, where vegan plant-based companies connect and collaborate. Today we have a spotlight and special guest, he is a former software executive, former meal kit and food truck business, owner a recipient of a cease and desist from McDonald’s for their creation The Big McInnis—that’s when they found out they were onto something. He is a leader behind the world’s first publicly traded vegan fast food company. VEG Networking Canada is pleased to introduce the co-founder and CEO of Odd Burger. Welcome James McInnis!
James McInnes: Thanks so much for having me.
Justin: We are happy to have you! Thank you so much for carving out some time for us today and going through this amazing set of questions that we have for you. The first one is on a personal note. Can you tell us:
What’s your personal vegan/plant-based origin story?
James: Yeah, for sure. So I guess for me it started with a health journey, and I think that’s a pretty common thing, that people are looking for a healthier lifestyle. I would say I really kind of started on the plant-based diet. I didn’t really understand what veganism was all about, but I was just really looking at improving some of my health conditions. I was diagnosed with high blood pressure when I was in my early 30s, and I went plant-based for about a month. I was never planning on staying plant-based; I was like, “I’m just gonna do this for a little bit and see how it goes.” But I felt so much better after only a month, after the withdrawal symptoms were gone. I felt amazing after that, and I just stuck with it. I had significant improvements to my health, so that’s kind of how it started for me. From there, it progressed to doing it more for the animals and for environmental reasons, versus strictly health reasons. But yeah, they’re all good reasons to do it, and that’s kind of where I came from.
Justin: That’s really great for folks to hear. It could be personal for them or maybe family members that have high blood pressure, and just more kind of, although anecdotal, but more proof that plants are very powerful and can actually act as medicines. That’s very, very interesting how you got your start.
Shifting gears now from personal to business, your entrepreneurial origin story. We talked about it in the beginning: you had a meal kit business, a food truck business, and you got the cease and desist from McDonald’s.
Can you tell us a little bit about your entrepreneurial story, kind of like where it sparked, where it started, and where you’re at now?
James: Yeah, like, I mean, I started in a different industry. I started in financial technology. My background, let’s see—my educational background is in software. So yeah, I started in that industry in the early 2000s, and I found and ran a financial technology company for about seven years.
But actually, part of me getting out of that business was a focus on my health and my plant-based journey, because part of it was that I wanted to do something good for the world. And no offense to anyone in financial technology, but it’s not like you’re doing necessarily something super great for the planet or for people. It’s really just kind of a money-driven industry, which doesn’t dominate again, but it’s just, for someone that wants to dedicate their life to making positive change, it’s not the best field to be in.
So that’s what caused me to shift into the plant-based industry. Odd Burger did not start as a business. For me, it’s a passion. I do this because I love it and no other reason than that. It really started as this sort of grassroots movement of people just coming together and enjoying fruits and vegetables. It was very much this community or movement, and then as the business evolved. We just figured out more ways to expose people to the benefits of the plant-based diet. And that’s where we kind of got into restaurants.
Justin: Really, really interesting. Yeah, like wholesome beginnings, grassroots beginnings. And we’ve heard it before, people are maybe doing something else, and then they see a gap in the marketplace and want to do something that’s more fulfilling. So that’s sort of the path that you followed… entrepreneurial start, really interesting.
Being in the plant-based space, being a pioneer in the space, you know, the world’s first publicly traded vegan fast-food company,
What are some trends that you’re seeing in your industry?
James: Well, I mean, obviously the trends that we’re seeing, we’re seeing the bigger chains starting to wake up, realizing that they need to offer some plant-based options. So I think we’re seeing the mainstream adoption of plant-based food, which is awesome. It’s actually great for us too. I’m happy that big chains have plant-based options even though we’re competing against them.
But the key is that they’re really able to expose more people to a plant-based diet. If someone has a burger at another restaurant chain that’s plant-based and they like it, then I believe they’re going to seek out more plant-based options, like us. So I think we’re seeing that kind of trend, and I think it’s really perfect. Hopefully, it just creates more people that are plant-based customers, which is good for everybody.
Justin: Absolutely. And in the space, we’ve had other special guests in the CPG space talk about trends in terms of packaging or environmental sustainability.
Is there anything like that, that you’re picking up on as well?
James: Yeah, we are actually. So our new line of packaging that is going to be released is going to be 100% compostable. The compostable packaging thing is tough to get to, especially with COVID and supply issues… the packaging industry is kind of crazy. But yeah, we’re basically set to be, right now we’re plastic-free, but we’re set to be 100% compostable within about four or five months, once all of our packaging arrives.
The cool thing about that is it’ll really allow us to do 100% landfill diversion for our consumer-based packaged products. Part of our plan with that is to actually have composters in our restaurants so that people can just put all their stuff in the compost and then it just goes right back into soil.
The idea is that we really want to be the most sustainable fast-food chain out there, and packaging is part of that for sure. We also look at things like energy consumption with our equipment, it’s all super high-efficiency equipment. And there are a lot of different factors you need to look at when you’re looking at sustainability and environmental stewardship.
Because as you guys know, I think that’s always the direction we’re going in, and hopefully, other people are going to follow.
Justin: Yeah, I’m sure they will follow that. Again, pioneering different avenues within the space. It’s funny; we actually have a member of a group of vegan accountants, and I was corresponding with him over the weekend. He actually just got an on-the-counter compostable unit. I forget the brand, but it turns compost right into dirt. Really interesting hearing you talk about having that at the store level. Sounds incredible.
I’m really glad we asked you that question because that’s really exciting…moving there in four to five months and being fully compostable and already being zero plastic, which is interesting.
One more question, if I may, on the topic of trends. I’m asking this because of our member and spotlight that we had last week, who’s a vegan nutritionist. She was talking about trends toward moving away from diet culture and really nutritious food.
Being in the vegan fast-food space, is the idea to stay fast food, or is the idea also to maybe introduce healthy fast food? Does that make sense?
James: Yeah, so I guess for us it’s interesting because I think there’s always a balance between health and indulgence that, as a restaurant, you need to be mindful of. If you make things too healthy, then people aren’t going to want to eat them, or you just go toward a very small segment of the population. Same thing if it’s too unhealthy… then you pigeonhole yourself with people who aren’t eating consciously for their health.
This is one of the reasons we make our food with mostly three or four ingredients. Like our chicken patty, for example, we don’t use commercial products like Beyond or Impossible Foods. Part of the reason is that we try to stay away from highly processed plant-based products. Not that there’s anything wrong with them, they have their place, they’re great, but we just find that people who are not vegan come to us because we’re healthier, faster, and it’s the reason they come to us. When they hear “vegan,” they think “healthier.”
So when they come in, they really like having more natural products and simpler ingredients. And vice versa, for many vegans, we’re like an indulgence… we’re “junk food” for them. So we always try to find this balance in our food, where we have some menu items that are deep-fried and some that are not. We have salad wraps and loaded fries, it’s all about finding that balance in your menu.
We’re also very mindful of allergens because there are a lot of people with allergies. For example, we’re nut-free, a lot of vegan restaurants use cashews for cream sauces or other things, so we’re nut-free. That’s good for people with allergies, but we also get a lot of customers with dairy, egg, or shellfish allergies who don’t feel comfortable eating at a normal fast-food restaurant because they’re not allergen-friendly.
So whether it’s gluten-free or soy-free, we have an option for almost anybody who comes into the restaurant, and we’re always trying to move toward the most allergen-neutral environment. That’s another subset of people who come to our restaurant for that reason.
Justin: I’m glad that we drilled down a little bit more into the menu because that’s totally a differentiator. You’re not just a vegan fast-food joint that’s white-labeling common products and passing them off as your own. Moving into honouring and respecting allergens, I think, is super important, that’s a whole other trend in and of itself. Really, really interesting.
So moving on. The next question always starts by saying there’s no right or wrong answer. Maybe you’ve done it and it didn’t work, maybe it’s in the pipeline, or maybe you do things people don’t know about. So the next question is:
Does Odd Burger support any charitable organizations?
James: Yeah, for sure, and we always have actually since our beginning. So we work right now mostly with the Save Movement, and in every grand opening of our stores, we donate half the sales to the Save Movement. We do special events as well. We work also directly with some animal sanctuaries, doing events where they sell their swag in our restaurant, and we donate product sales to those organizations as well.
Every year we donate thousands to leading charities, whether it’s the Save Movement or other vegan charities. But that being said, we don’t work exclusively with charities. We also support different social justice organizations. We did a big donation with Black Lives Matter last year, and we did another one with an LGBTQ charity. We really focus on social justice and vegan organizations because we feel like they’re underfunded, to be honest.
When you give back to the community, we always find that when we support them, we get supported in exchange. It’s a really important relationship, especially if you go into a new place, like a new city or wherever you are. That’s one great thing about the community, that there is a sort of built-in support from that community alone.
So yeah, I mean, we always have been, and it’s always been really important for us to support all these causes.
Justin: Animal sanctuaries, we all know that’s amazing. The Save Movement, we all know that’s amazing. I was not expecting the other answer you gave in terms of social justice and human rights, but it totally makes sense and lines up with everything that this movement has to offer. Very, very incredible. Thank you so much for all the work that you do for those charities and those movements.
The next question is, as it relates to being a business owner, as it relates to being an entrepreneur, can we pick your brain a little bit? Maybe you can give us one of each, or just one is fine…
A book, podcast, or app that you find very valuable as an entrepreneur?
James: Yeah, there’s one book called The E-Myth. I don’t know if someone’s read that before, but it’s interesting because it talks about how, to be a successful entrepreneur, you need to have a few different aspects of the puzzle, right? Like you need a technician, you need a manager; you need an entrepreneur.
There are definitely a few reasons out there, but to be honest, I haven’t read a lot of books on entrepreneurship. I haven’t done a lot of that kind of stuff. I guess I’m just too busy creating or doing my own stuff. It’s one of those things where I think when you’re living as an entrepreneur, when you’re living that lifestyle and have done it for so long, it’s very hard to just stop doing it and read a book about it or whatever, because you’re too busy creating or doing other things.
Justin: Yeah, totally valid. And we’ve actually had folks give that same answer, like, “I’m too thick in it to pay attention to what other people are doing. I’m busy creating and doing exactly what you said.”
The one that you did give though, The E-Myth, for those who don’t know, is a fabulous book about focusing on what you’re great at and bringing in people who may be great at what you’re not great at, building that team, which I’m sure is going to be part of the advice that you give a little later on, and part of the big reason for your success, James.
So next question: What and who inspires you from a company level? Maybe it’s a local company, obviously, the charities that you work with inspire you, or maybe it’s a global company that has nothing to do with the fast food industry. The next question is:
What are some companies or a company that inspires you in your business?
James: I’m always inspired by technology companies. I think for me, just having a tech background, it’s so important to understand where technology in general is going in the world, right? For example, EV technology or metaverse technology, all that kind of stuff.
For me, what I’m trying to do is take my technology background and put it into the plant-based food industry, whether that’s with restaurant technology or manufacturing technology or technology for how to grow food or whatever. I would say I have a deep interest on the tech side of things because I think the answer is, you know, the answer to how we are going to win this war on people destroying the planet always comes back to a technology solution.
It’s the only way you can really get a competitive advantage. You can’t really get that kind of advantage unless you have the technology, right? This is why I’m so excited to be developing such cool technology. There’s so much more that we’re going to be doing because, again, how do you compete against the huge chains like McDonald’s? Same thing, how did Netflix beat Blockbuster? How did any of these companies compete?
The answer always comes back to technology, because it’s not enough to just say, hey, we’re going to create good food. It actually is not enough, because now you have to think, we need to create good food, but it has to be at a price point that is competitive, and that’s the tricky part. How do you apply economics to it?
So, yeah, I mean, the companies that I’d say I love to follow are like Tesla, even the big companies like Apple and Facebook. Anything technology, I think, is so cool and is much needed in the plant-based space.
Justin: Absolutely much needed, and given your background and your clear passion for that type of answer, I’m sure you could spend a whole hour just talking about food tech, the future of food, and how that integrates. That’s very, very interesting. Thanks so much for sharing some companies that inspire you, or more so, a sector that inspires you and can further the movement.
So, usually this is our last question, but we have some bonus questions for you after this one. With that being said, what is some advice that you have for business owners and entrepreneurs? You can pick one or kind of give a broad answer, but maybe coming from the perspective of somebody who might be looking at becoming an entrepreneur, somebody who just started, somebody in the middle of their journey, or maybe someone looking at an exit or going public:
Do you have any advice for business owners and entrepreneurs, James?
James: I mean, I think when anyone is considering becoming an entrepreneur, the one thing that people don’t always understand is that there is a sacrifice to being an entrepreneur. It’s not an easy path. It’s a long journey, underpaid for many years, full of financial insecurity, sleepless nights, all that kind of stuff.
The reward, of course, is that you’re hopefully doing something you love and are passionate about, so it justifies the hardship. But you really have to be in the right place in your life and around the right people. If you’re with a partner that doesn’t support it, or if you have huge financial commitments, it’s hard to quit your job and start a business without bringing in a paycheck for a couple of years.
You have to be in the right environment. I always tell people to make sure they surround themselves with people who will support that journey. It’s not enough to just say, “I’m going to do what I love.” You really need that support system in place.
Once you have that and you’ve started, the next question is the hardest part:
How do you grow?
James: That’s always the hardest part. There’s a balance between how much capital you have, how much you want to raise, how much you’re spending, and how much equity you’re giving away along the path. I see a lot of entrepreneurs raise a lot of money early on and give away too much equity, which hurts them later. You don’t think of it at the time, but years later you might say, “I wish I had raised less three years ago, I would have owned forty percent instead of five.”
Entrepreneurs have to be careful about diluting themselves too much. If you own five percent of your startup, you basically just have a job again, and you haven’t really built yourself any equity.
We’ve always been conservative with the amount of money we’ve raised, raising the least we can and running a lean, efficient business. I think that’s a good thing. Being close to the edge of your financing needs forces you to be efficient. If you have too much money, you stop caring as much. But if you need to watch every dollar and manage your margins closely, you become more focused on how well the business runs.
That helps tremendously later on. If you build a good business model early, you’ll become profitable faster and raise less money later.
When should a company go public, and why?
James: We went public for a few reasons. One was that it was an extraordinary moment in the market for plant-based companies. Several were going public, and valuations were good. I still think they’re fair. The plant-based sector still has a lot of growth ahead.
Really, though, you want to go public when you’re on the verge of profitability and explosive revenue growth. In the public markets, there’s a new level of expectations. Your financials are public, and people look at your quarterly performance. In a private company, no one cares as much.
In public markets, every quarter is expected to be better than the last. You need to be at that growth stage, not in early R&D. For us, we had spent years developing our model and felt ready to grow.
Since going public, we’ve opened five new locations, sold three franchises, and have ten more in development. We’re in that hyper-growth phase. But for the market, growth can never happen quickly enough.
For me, I love the pressure. It drives us forward. We operate well under pressure, and that’s part of our culture. We need to expand quickly to help the world eat more sustainably.
It’s great for us, but going public isn’t for everyone. You have to look at all the factors carefully.
Justin: Absolutely. Everything you said, totally. And to your latter point there, that’s where having good people around you comes in, helping give insights and figuring out when the right time is. It sounds like the culture of Odd Burger has almost an athletic spirit, that competitive drive and focus under pressure. I love that kind of culture in business.
You touched on franchises and growth, which brings us to the next question:
What’s involved in buying a franchise, and what type of entrepreneur does well in a franchise environment?
James: The steps start with the application and interview process. People go to our website, fill out the franchising application, and we review their background, reasons for interest, and financial capacity. Then there are several interview stages with different team members. I personally interview all new franchisees to make sure they align with our mission.
The people who do well as franchisees are those with passion. We look for people who are doing this for the right reason. Many are vegan, plant-based, or vegetarian and want a business that aligns with their ethics. It’s hard to find a business that matches your values, so that’s the big draw for people joining us.
It gives them an opportunity to live their values, to have a vegan business, open multiple locations, and be part of a world-changing company.
Franchisees also bring valuable skills, whether in real estate, construction, technology, or other areas. We’re receptive to their feedback and ideas, which strengthens the organization.
After the interviews, there’s the legal paperwork, the franchise fee, and then we work with franchisees to find a location. Location is critical, especially in the restaurant business. The right corner or plaza can make a huge difference.
That’s where franchisees bring local knowledge. If they’ve lived somewhere for 20 years, they know which areas are active and which aren’t. That insight is invaluable.
Once a location is found, the process becomes systematic. We provide the designs, prototypes, and guidance for the build-out, followed by a comprehensive training program. Franchisees learn everything from maintaining equipment to making every menu item to managing daily operations.
We want them to know everything because it’s their business, and they care the most. Training is how we ensure consistency across all locations.
Justin: Exactly. And that’s the benefit; those are the people who do really well. Someone who wants a turnkey business, not necessarily to build something from scratch. The people who say, “I have these values, I have the capital, and I want to deploy it into something that makes sense.” That’s incredible.
Is there anything coming up or exciting you’d like to mention about franchising?
James: Well, I mean, I think generally speaking, if you sort of look at our franchising strategy, it’s really broad geographically. So, we’re opening spots in Victoria, Calgary, Ottawa. Obviously, we have our base here in southwestern Ontario, but soon going to be entering the U.S. market. I think the key here is that you have a lot of brands, you know, maybe they’ll franchise just in the Toronto market or something like that and then become like a Toronto franchise brand. And that’s something that we really don’t want to be. We don’t want to be just a Canadian fast food chain; we want to be a global chain, right?
So, we’re really focused right now on testing that geographic reach. And what’s so exciting about that is, if the model works in Toronto, it works in Vancouver, it works in Halifax, and it works in L.A. and New York, wherever. And if the model works in all those places, the exciting thing is that it provides proof of concept that it can work anywhere. The more cities that you have this model working in, the bigger your scope of where you can go.
Right now, we’re in six different cities, and we’re successful in those cities. So, the question is: where else can we go? Is this going to work everywhere? And if it works everywhere, then the opportunity for growth is tremendous. That’s what franchises see, and that’s where the excitement is. Because, you know, if you open a site in New York City, for example, and it does well, maybe you open 20 more. And that’s really the key to franchising, it’s multi-unit, having lots of restaurants. That’s how you really do well in franchising.
The people that are really into franchises know that, and that’s why if you look at really successful franchises, most of them have multi-units. So, we really want to support people like that because, again, you want to make people successful, help them have a great business, and support their passions while they’re doing it, and make the world a better place. For us, there’s nothing better than that. And same with the franchisees, for them, that’s what they want too. So that’s really what we set out to do, build a model that allows people to run big businesses. We want franchisees to run big businesses. That’s kind of our role.
To infinity and beyond, that’s it.
Justin: How cheesy is that? Okay, last question:
When it comes to your franchises in Canada, from a financing perspective, is there any news to mention, or not yet?
James: Yeah, so actually, the one cool thing about the franchises in Canada is that we do have amazing financing programs through CIBC and RBC. We offer up to 90% financing on the equipment and leasehold improvements, up to $350,000. These are also government-backed loans, which is pretty cool, so there’s less personal risk for franchisees if something didn’t work out.
The exciting thing about it is that it really gives more people access to franchising because you just don’t need much capital. You can spread that loan out over 10 years. Canada has great programs that are backed by the government and administered through community banks. And the banks, they love our business model. They believe in it, and that’s why they’re willing to offer such an aggressive financing rate for prospective franchisees.
So for us, if you can franchise up to 90% of the restaurant, it just means you can open more restaurants with your cash. Your cash goes further to open up more units, and that’s really what we want. We’re excited about that, it’s a great business opportunity for people.
Justin: Awesome. Thank you so much, that’s incredible news. Two final questions for you.
We’re gonna start with: why did you and your team spend years building a brand and then decide to change it?
James: Yeah, so that was a crazy period of time. But yeah, so we, like our company started there with a different name, so we went public with everything. It was called Globally Local at the time. And you know, it’s interesting because when you start a company, you don’t necessarily know where you’re going to go or where you’re going to end up. So when we started the company, we were doing organic programs, it was like a produce company, which kind of makes sense for me like global. But then we kind of evolved into fast food, and then the whole lawsuit with McDonald’s. Because we were actually going to change our name like Vegans, but then McDonald’s stopped us from doing it because they ended up using that name, I think in Europe or something for one something that they’re doing, so they didn’t like that.
Even though my last name is McInnis, it didn’t really matter. So when we went public, we had already started the process of rebranding probably like six months before. That was a long process, like how do you find a name, so hardware brand wouldn’t be met and that kind of stuff. And the hardest thing is actually trademark. The catalyst behind it was that we were not able to get the trademarks for Globally Local in the US or in Canada. So there were objections from someone else in Canada and someone else actually had the mark in the States for food use. So basically, you’re kind of faced with a challenge where it’s like you can’t keep investing in something that potentially has that kind of risk, so we had to change something.
So we worked with some incredible branding companies, two different ones actually, in Toronto. And again, long process of what names and what people think about it, and we ended up settling on Odd Burger. And it was interesting because when I first heard the name, I was like, “Oh, I don’t like it; it’s kind of offensive to vegans or something.” I think like, why are we calling vegans odd or weird? But then the more I thought about it, it’s actually not for vegans really, it’s for people that aren’t vegan. And if you’re not vegan, and you’re very, you know, like when we asked a hundred non-vegans what they thought of Odd Burger, they were like, oh we love it, it makes sense, you guys are vegan, you’re doing things differently.
So we love the humor around it, because I think humor is something that actually connects people where you have differences. If you’re like this and I’m like this and we have these stark differences, and we can laugh about something, then it actually brings us together right away. So we ended up taking the plunge and doing the name change, which was super intense. I mean, we’re still changing things like a year later.
But yeah, I mean everything from the packaging to your signage. Luckily for us when we changed it, we were just about to open five new locations, so we really wanted to make sure that we weren’t opening them under a different brand and then having to spend all this money rebranding. So the timing was when we had to do it, just after we went public, right before we were going to open up new spots. It was a narrow window where we just had to do it then, and that is actually, you know, I think when you’re an entrepreneur it’s all about timing. Timing is everything. If you do the thing at the right time, you get a good result, and if you don’t, then it’s not as good. So we really did it at the right time.
Initially, just like anything, I don’t think it would matter what we called it — people love and hate the name, doesn’t matter what we changed to, some loved it, some didn’t.
Justin: Yeah, it is great, and that’s such a, I know that, like, just listening to when that was happening, different investors and people questioning it, like why, and listening to your point like I like it, I don’t like it, whatever. But really interesting response from you guys to why you did it. And again, if we just literally talked about the brand redesign and the pillars and the vision and everything, that could be like a whole other hour conversation. So thank you for just being open and honest about the reason why and everything, I think that’s incredible.
James: Yeah, and the funny thing about Odd Burger is that, and I don’t know if you notice this as well or any of our customers, but every time I see the word “odd,” doesn’t matter where it is, I think of us. Like if I see someone using the word, I’m like, oh, Odd Burger. So the cool thing actually about it is that you end up kind of owning a word, or something that is just everywhere, and people associate “odd” with vegan, and with us. But it kind of gets into your head, it gets into culture.
Because all of a sudden it’s like, I noticed the other day that McDonald’s, there was some article that said McDonald’s is re-releasing an Odd Burger. That was the title of the article. I was like, oh, I’m going to open this up, and it was like they were releasing something else, but right away it made me think like, oh, they’re using our word. So it’s very interesting, that kind of reaction, and I think that’s part of the deeper power of branding. Because branding is so powerful, right? Branding is everything. That’s why we work with really incredible branding companies, because if you work with the right people that are really good at it, you create that foundation for the business and the brand. If you build a business on a brand that’s not solid or not great, then it hurts you later on and makes it harder for people to remember your name.
Justin: Absolutely, absolutely. It’s cool, and when you tell the story about McDonald’s in the article, my brain goes, “Alright McDonald’s, here’s your cease and desist now.”
I wasn’t going to ask the first time because I don’t like putting people on the spot, but it sounds like you worked with two companies that you may want to just drop their names here.
James: Yeah, so the actual name Odd Burger was created by a company called Sid Lee. So Sid Lee is a Toronto branding company. They’re most well known for the “We The North” campaign with the Raptors. But they’ve done a bunch of other great work too. So they were part of that initial naming discovery process. Then we ended up developing the brand under a different company called Concrete, another Toronto branding company. They’re really more focused on packaging and the food space. They’ve done a lot of great projects with companies like MAC and that kind of stuff. They were fantastic to really implement the brand.
So we ended up working with these two companies. I think the end result was pretty awesome. Concrete, for example, developed their own font, so like the Odd Burger font, it’s a totally custom font, it’s all just one big art project, totally unique. Then we developed all of our own characters. We hired illustrators, one from the UK and another from the States, who created our Odd emojis, our chickpea character, our mascot. So again, a lot of work with artists and branding companies. And you know, this is at the heart of any good brand, the creative process. That’s why for us, the creative people and artists are the most valuable types of people we work with.
Justin: That’s the super fun and sexy part. I love it, I love it. Like many people in the private vegan space, of course not everybody, but most of us, to your point, the community is really focused on lifting each other up, sharing ideas, collaborating, the whole reason for VEG Networking Canada. So the last question for you is, of course it goes without saying, I know you don’t want this for anybody; you don’t want any other restaurant to go under or anything like that, so just start off by saying that, but with that being said:
How did Odd Burger thrive while other restaurants were folding during the last couple of years?
We’re going to end with that, a nice positive note, nice uplifting note.
James: It was actually kind of, it was almost, I think it was almost by accident that we ended up really being in a position that allowed us to thrive. And I guess this is just part of an entrepreneurial story again, but the foundations of that were that we had a restaurant in Ontario and the street ended up getting closed for a big year of construction. They ripped up the whole street, you couldn’t drive down the street, totally inaccessible. It was actually our first location in downtown London, and it was brutal. Obviously, we went from people walking around coming in for lunch to no one coming anymore because people didn’t want to walk down the street that was under construction, or drive, etc.
We were in a position where we had to figure out what to do. We ended up developing a system because we knew the only way for us to make it through was to operate the restaurant with one person. From a labor cost point of view, we couldn’t have more than one person working there. The question was how to do that. We ended up putting in self-checkout, went cashless, totally transformed the kitchen equipment, got over the grill, changed how we made the food so that it was automated. We launched this concept called the smart kitchen, which is an automated kitchen where you can run a restaurant with as little as one person. Everything’s pre-programmed, so you just push a button here, push a button there, take the food out, and put it together.
The model worked. It allowed the business to survive. We made it through, breaking even basically, just keeping the restaurant running, paying rent, keeping lights on. Then we opened Toronto using the same model. We had already developed a super efficient, compact model that runs in less than a thousand square feet. There’s no interaction, no cash being exchanged, which reduces disease transmission. Self-checkout was already in place. We were positioned for a takeout-focused model.
During the pandemic, we were already in a position where people were recommending takeout, and obviously, people were getting lots of takeout. We did really well, we were busy, and we were trying to open as many restaurants as we could. Landlords were eager to work with us because no one else wanted to rent space. It opened up the opportunity to expand and build a restaurant business, whereas other restaurants were just trying to survive, closing or putting brakes on expansion because most restaurants were dining-heavy businesses.
That’s how we made it through. It was one of those wild experiences showing that the challenges you face as an entrepreneur can sometimes benefit you later unexpectedly. That’s the epitome of entrepreneurial spirit. You take a massive challenge, pivot, do something new, and that sets you up for success when the next obstacle comes.
Justin: Super inspiring story. I don’t know how many people know that. It must also speak to the amazing culture among the franchisees and employees working within Odd Burger. Before we wrap up, people want to know where to find you online. The stock ticker is there. Anything else you want to mention?
James: The last thing is, as a public company, the cool part about being a plant-based public company is that anyone can support you from anywhere. You don’t have to go to a restaurant to support us. You can buy our stock and support a vegan company. I always thought that was really cool… you can invest in a business you believe in and make it easier for people to support a plant-based business that way.
We need more vegan companies, green companies, and technology-focused companies doing positive things for the planet. I think we’re going to see a big green economy coming, and companies not on the right side of climate change will struggle. I hope more people consider joining the sustainability movement. This is going to be a big feature for anyone in the space.
Justin: We gleaned so much from this conversation. Thanks so much. If you’re looking for support at scale, going public might be an option. Voting with your dollar is very powerful. The Toronto Stock Exchange Venture, ODD, the Canadian Venture Exchange ODD, talk to your broker or use your mobile app. Type in Odd Burger to invest. This is not financial advice, just information and educational purposes.
For franchising opportunities in Canada, check out www.oddburger.com. You can also find them on Instagram at @oddburgerfastfood to see their humor and culture.
James, thank you so much for joining us on VEG Networking Canada. We wish you all the best in the new year.
Header photo credit: Duane Cole
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